tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6320802302155582419.post6355254689590202516..comments2024-02-13T12:50:30.457-05:00Comments on Rants Within the Undead God: Social Justice and Existential CosmicismBenjamin Cainhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00661999592897690031noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6320802302155582419.post-80507793570743841502014-04-05T15:26:29.380-04:002014-04-05T15:26:29.380-04:00I don't have a problem with Hollywood itself, ...I don't have a problem with Hollywood itself, necessarily, since I see a lot of movies. My problem is with delusions, such as a person's delusion that she's beyond the need for myths even when she buys into Hollywood ones. I'm annoyed when people aren't as authentic or consistent as they could be. <br /><br />The point about consumerism and sports is that we have substitute, civic religions. The question of whether we're beyond the need for worshiping something sacred depends a little on how we define the terms. As long as we regard something as ultimately important so that our behaviour becomes irrational with respect to it, we seem to have that religious attitude toward it. Is there someone who doesn't care much about anything? I'm not sure how such a person could get up in the morning. Benjamin Cainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00661999592897690031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6320802302155582419.post-16641584624691538582014-04-02T22:48:41.885-04:002014-04-02T22:48:41.885-04:00No, self-deception doesn't cut it - you can...No, self-deception doesn't cut it - you can't pretend to yourself you're a christian/pretend to yourself all that christian stuff is going on then believe it. Were decieving ourselves if we think religion involves self deception. No, you considerably reduce the charge I gave.<br /><br />Further, how did you tie materialistic consumerism and sports together? If that were so, we could have people on a couch watching people on TV who are on a couch, eating a hamburger. Granted some reality TV is essentially that, but I mentioned sports, not reality TV.<br /><br />And precisely what is wrong with hollywood? What if there was no money involved? What if they passed on the movies and ads for love of the myth they repeated/crafted? Would you have a problem with hollywood then - because that's all myths have ever been?<br /><br /><i>I think the Old Testament is likely right when it says that the Israelites turned away from God only to fall prey to idols.</i><br />The only way that is a lesson is if there was a god they turned away from.<br /><br />Otherwise it's: the Israelites turned away from idol only to fall prey to idols.<br /><br />As for need, I think everyones pretty much beyond the need to worship anything sacred. I've heard of people needing air, or needing water, and dying from a lack. They certainly needed it. I haven't heard of anyone dying of lack of sacred things to worship. Perhaps you over state the claim, making 'need' out of 'want'. Once it becomes 'want', how much is it about the 'gods' vs just what we want?Callan S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15373053356095440571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6320802302155582419.post-86769481541548405082014-04-02T10:08:40.233-04:002014-04-02T10:08:40.233-04:00I think you're saying that religion requires s...I think you're saying that religion requires self-deception, so we might as well prefer some substitutes, like sports, which likewise unite people. Of course, that is happening in modern societies, which have civic religions and materialistic consumerism, Hollywood movies and associative ads substituting for traditional myths. But most substitute religions will likewise require self-deception on the part of the practitioners. <br /><br />I wonder whether there's a kind of spirituality that doesn't require it and that even truly seeks to dispose of delusions wherever they're found. Buddhism and indeed all sorts of mysticism are supposed to be forms of enlightenment, but not even Buddhism may be sufficiently naturalistic. I look at existential cosmicism as a possible basis for a superior, viable religion in the postmodern context. <br /><br />But I think you're suggesting that we can just give up on the goal of spirituality and be thoroughly irreligious. I wonder whether that's possible without changing our neural hardware. I think the Old Testament is likely right when it says that the Israelites turned away from God only to fall prey to idols. We always seek substitute gods even when we pretend to be beyond the need to worship anything sacred. Benjamin Cainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00661999592897690031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6320802302155582419.post-91968605639673726162014-04-01T04:10:16.154-04:002014-04-01T04:10:16.154-04:00Religion: Craving structure without seeing one cra...Religion: Craving structure without seeing one craves structure.<br /><br />Here's a bit of fun - I'll bring up an analogy which would generally just cause most folks to focus on the analogy - but I'm guessing not so with you, Ben. Okay, the analogy is that deliberate religion is a bit like roleplaying rape - ie, a consensual roleplay of rape. Ie, it's not the real deal. (and yup, at this point most folks sour on the R word)<br /><br />So how viable is the idea of religion when you are deliberately doing it?<br /><br />Sports have various structures and a hell of alot of people follow those or even practice it (let's ignore the big money players for now though, cause...for alot of reasons). What's wrong with that model rather than <i>attempting</i> religion? Callan S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15373053356095440571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6320802302155582419.post-37134652585076368782014-03-28T18:38:28.839-04:002014-03-28T18:38:28.839-04:00In so far as a religion is a social practice based...In so far as a religion is a social practice based on a myth that unites a population, consumerism can indeed be regarded as a religion. The myths would be the delusions proliferated by associative advertizing and by Hollywood. And you're right that those myths prevent most consumers from feeling the despair that naturalism ought to cause. I differ from postmodernists in that I don't think all religions or worldviews are equal. As I say in Ironies of Modern Progress and Infantilization, though, I think consumerism is dehumanizing, so I look forward to a religion that encourages us to be existentially authentic, to transcend our base inclinations for the sake of artistic originality, and to act as tragic heroes in our confrontations with undead nature. <br /><br />By the way, I recently saw an interesting documentary on the Roman gladiators, according to which they didn't usually fight to the death, because their promoters didn't want to lose money by losing the combatants. They were killed only when they got injured, because the ancient world had no medical science to treat them adequately, and in that case they actually killed themselves (they held the victor's weapon to guide it into them). The rest is Hollywood fiction.Benjamin Cainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00661999592897690031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6320802302155582419.post-85737325054023385472014-03-28T15:17:38.043-04:002014-03-28T15:17:38.043-04:00Perhaps capitalism is the new religion. Our worshi...Perhaps capitalism is the new religion. Our worship of the Alphas, consumerism, love of inequality, maybe those are the commandments of the new religion. Perhaps the nihilism we fear from the meaningless of existence is rendered mute by the values of the new religion. <br />The Romans believed power makes right. The only moral justification needed to kill a gladiator was that he lost. So it is possible for us to construct a moral framework based entirely on the triviality and cruelty of nature.<br />Capitalism, in my view, is no different. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com